Tuesday, December 9, 2008
Achilles's armor
In class, we have been talking a lot about Achilles's armor and what it meant. It is more than just protective clothing, it is a symbol. People knew who Achilles was by what he wore and that is why everyone thought Hector killed Achilles, when he really killed Patroclus. When Achilles's armor was stripped from Partroclus's dead body Hector wore it. He believed that if he wore this armor he would be the best warrior that ever lived. The turning point in the Iliad is when Patroclus dies, and in this scene, Achilles loses his armor while Hector obtains it. After this scene Hector's ego starts to sky rocket while Achilles starts to think things through. I think that since Achilles lost his armor he is becoming Hector early in the book, while Hector is now becoming the cocky Achilles. I also believe that Achilles is dependent on a piece of armor, to feel that he is safe and protected. When he loses his original armor, the god Hephaestus makes him the famous shield and with this shield Achilles was able to defeat Hector and have his revenge for the death of Patroclus. Homer does a great job of making the armor more than just metal and in literature today, we still see that an object posses more than what meets the eye.
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13 comments:
I think it's safe to say that we can all agree that Achilles' armor is more than just protective clothing. If it was just another set of armor than Hector and others would not have gone through so much trouble to obtain it. However, I'm not so sure I agree with your point when you say that Hector and Achilles change roles when the armor changes hands. It is mere coincidence that when Achilles no longer has his original armor that he begins to change for the better. He is not driven back into battle over his armor, but rather by his love for his friend Patroclus. Taking back the armor is the least of his concerns, getting revenge on Hector is all he cares about. Patroclus' death, with the fact that he was wearing Achilles' armor being irrelevant, is what changes Achilles.
Well I think one thing the two of you are missing is that if it was just another piece of armor then Achilles would not have been the great warrior that he was. The armor that Achilles wore made him such a great warrior. I also thought that the way we were able to see the armor sort of decieve the people who wear it other than Achilles was interesting.
And I agree with Nick, it was not the loss of Achilles armor that changed Achilles, it was the death of Patroclus.
Hold on, let me point out Sean's second sentence: "It is more than just protective clothing, it is a symbol." i think he's got a really good point if you keep that in mind. Achilles' loss of armor is NOT what causes his change. instead, look at it as a symbol of the change. i think he's right about that.
i'm sort of interested by the thought that Achilles needs armor to feel safe and protected. When you first said that, my thought was that when he loses his armor, he also loses that need. But you're right, Hephaestus does make him the shield. i'm honestly not sure what to do with that... it's a sort of change in identity, perhaps?
I agree with you sean. Achilles' armor is important to him, but i think its real importance is its symbolism. Afterall, Achilles does continue to be a great warrior even without his original armor, and defeats Hector who is wearing it. Simply saying, its not the armor that makes Achilles great, its Achilles that makes the armor great. All of Achilles' actions and triumphs are felt through his armor, which is why it is such a prized possession. I also believe that is why the armor doens't work for Hector, he has no previous relationship with it. Using someone else's armor is in a sense trying to take credit for everything they have previously accomplished while wearing it.
I agree with Nick. I think the timing of the armour change is the only significance in Achilles' change, and that he changes because of the death of Patroclus. The loss of armour is not what motviates him to think things through logically, its the loss of his friend, and lover Patroclus. I do agree with what you said about the transformation of heroic roles between Hector and Achilles. Good thinking.
I like your follow-up on our assertions in class. Obviously, armor in The Iliad is something quite important and profound and has a certain necessity to the warrior that possesses it. I kind of disagree with what you say about how when Achilles loses his armor he is becoming Hector. I think throughout the book, Achilles is seen as the better leader because he stands by his decisions. He also has the most loyal comrades possible, the Myrmidons. I think that Achilles realizes that he will die if he doesn't have his armor and waits until he is able to obtain another set.
Achilles' armor represents the power of Achilles. It is a trademark that carries Achilles' identity and his talents. It is not a symbol of pure strength, but rather a symbol of Achilles' strength and power. This is best proven by what happens to Hector and Patroclus once they wear the armor. The armor is almost like a target that marks a man as Achilles and also marks his death. Achilles is the only person that handle the power and influence the armor holds. People attack the armor in order to claim the glory of defeating the great Achilles. No man or mortal can handle the responsibility or role of being a target in battle. aside from Achilles. Patroclus and Hector die after wearing the armor
I agree completely with Captain Kirk. The armor is a symbol, and Hector and Achilles sort of swap roles after the armor changes hands. It's ironic how such a hunk of metal can have such sway over people even devoid of any magic. We see it all the time except in the present day it isn't armor, it's money.
Achilles armor is definitely a symbol of power. However, Hector finds out that that power will betray him. So perhaps the armor really represents the power of Achilles, not some sort of power that is contained inside the shield and can be transferred to whoever wears it.
You know, I never really thought of that before. Achilles first set of armor was weaker and shabbier than his newer armor. After the death of Patroclus, and the loss of armor, Achilles changed. Perhaps it was just a symbol of him being less egotistical than before and becoming more of the hero he was supposed to be. Pretty good Sean, didn't think of that.
HAHAHHAHAHA WOW nice job of stealing the quote from transformers.
On another note...
I think Homer does do a great job of showing the symbolism of armor.
I'm going to take a turn on this comment and slightly change the topic. I believe that the special feeling and desire for Achilles armor is the same as the desire for professional athlete specified sports gear today. A lot of people feel that they will jump higher with Air Jordans or catch better with NFL eqiupment gloves.
I think that the trend to be "better" a what you do because of what it (your apparel/armor) represents has and will never end.
Seansy, I like your post a lot. I think that it's safe to say that everyone else has pretty much covered every aspect of your post, but nevertheless, I like it. Achilles armor is what symbolizes him as the most skilled and deadly warrior. It represents his identity. Because that armor represents Achilles so much, simply seeing the armor scares the Trojans.
Achilles is more powerfull than Hector even witouth his armor...
Achilles was the greatest warrior in that time, not with the help of his shield..
His skills of killing were insane, and armor didn't helped him in that..
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